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Trading best isk making profession?

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Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 14:36:00 - [1] - Quote Gregory Brunswick wrote: How do others feel? For me, tradings seems to be the best isk making venture That would depend on a lot of things... It depends on how good you are at trading compared to the alternative isk making ventures. Gregory Brunswick wrote: in terms of time invested You have to consider how much time you want to invest and how often. Gregory Brunswick wrote: and returns. You have to consider how much isk you can invest in it and for how long. Gregory Brunswick wrote: and more of a grind. You imply by this that your criteria aren't restricted to time and returns. You also care about how interesting, enjoyable or challenging the venture may be. Gregory Brunswick wrote: Trading requires a low sp investment and you don't need to work with anyone else. You also consider low SP investment and independence a benefit. So really, the question is quite complex and can only really be answered by looking at all the alternatives. Of course, if you haven't tried the alternatives it can be difficult to make a good analysis.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 14:58:00 - [2] - Quote We might as well get the obvious alternative out of the way first... Darth Tickles wrote: Scamming. Time Investment? Highly variable, you can really take your pick. T4U took a lot of time and I can think of several other big scams that were very slow burn. However, there are far more examples of small scams with very little time investment and no great need to commit to them long term. I think you can pretty much work with whatever you have in this area. Isk Investment? Highly variable, there is a scam for every wallet size. It compares favourably with trading. With T4U I had a big chunk of isk invested in it, but that isk was actually borrowed from MD using a seperate set of bonds so I only needed to be able to pay the interest on those for as long as I needed the isk. Returns? Highly variable, but generally high provided you aren't bad at it. It compares favourably with trading. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? Nothing makes you scam in a boring, unfun and easy way. But you can do if you want. I'd say it compares favourably with trading. SP requirement? Independence? It requires no more SP or dependence on others than trading.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 15:18:00 - [3] - Quote Let's deal with another obvious one... OfBalance wrote: -Are you unable to fit or fake a decent incursion loadout? Time Investment? Considerable. Higher than trading. Each time you want to do this you need to get to an incursion with your ship(s), find and join a suitable group and then work plexes for as long as care to. It also helps if you do it frequently and spend time networking with other incursion runners so that you can get into better and more profitable groups quickly and easily. As far as PvE activities goes this isn't one of the better ones for minimising time investment. Isk Investment? Moderate. It has a higher starting bar than trading but a much lower cap. You need to be able to field a ship that will get accepted into fleets, that will cost you more than starting up as a trader. However there is a cap to how much isk you can effectively invest in an incursion running ship and that the return on additional investment in often questionable. Returns? Moderate. Starts out fairly well but doesn't scale like trading does. 100m isk per hour as a rough guide, if you are competent and with a competent fleet. You can exceed that, but not by much without multi-boxing, micro-managing your LP exchange (i.e. trading) or taking an unorthadox approach. Low-sec and 0.0 fleets are more profitable, for a marginal increase in risk if you are competent and with a competent fleet. 200m isk per hour as a rough guide. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? At first perhaps, but it soon becomes repetitive as is the case with most PvE. SP requirement? Independence? It requires more SP than trading and a lot more SP if you want to maximise returns. Scores badly on independence... you are going to have to play with other people unless you adopt a highly unorthadox approach.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 35	Posted - 2012.03.05 15:36:00 - [4] - Quote So how about wormholing? Time Investment? Variable, tending towards very high. More than trading. You can do it casually, but for the higher income levels the tendancy is to live in a C5 or C6 wormhole and invest a massive amount of time on making isk and carrying out supporting logistical activities. Isk Investment? Variable, tending towards high. Starts well, scales quite well at first but caps out lower than trading. You can start with a cheap battlecruiser, but for the higher income levels the tendancy is to multi-box dreadnaughts, carriers and other fairly expensive vessels. If you are setting up your own wormholing operation then you may need a POS and other infrastructure, although there are unorthadox approaches that allow you to avoid that. Returns? Highly variable and difficult to pin down. The practical cap is somewhere in the region of 1b isk per account per hour of PvE, but you have to be pretty hardcore to achieve that. Unorthadox strategies can yield higher returns, more mundane approaches tend to be in the region of 100m/hour. For the average person Incursions are more profitable, for the hard core wormholer the returns are quite impressive. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? Can be, but it depends on your taste. For the average person it will be good to start with and will tend to become dull. SP requirement? Independence? It requires more SP than trading and a lot more SP if you want to maximise returns. Can be solo, but often rewards co-operating with others.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 36	Posted - 2012.03.05 16:04:00 - [5] - Quote So how about FW Missions? Time Investment? Fairly low. Better than incursions and wormholing, probably higher than trading. In my experience you should set aside 2 hours for a session of FW missioning, less would be inefficient. Isk Investment? Fairly low. The starting point is a cheaply fit stealth bomber, the cap can be quite high depending on your approach. Returns? In the 100m/hour ballpark for an entry level player with an unoptimised approach. 200m/hour once you've got you know what you are doing (without pimped ships). Higher can be achieved with multi-boxing and various pimped setups. Unorthadox approaches can increase the rewards considerably to the point that this becomes the highest paying PvE you can do without a supercapital. However, it is worth noting that any significantly advanced method of making isk from FW is barely distinguishable from trading. Interesting? Fun? Challenging? Can be. The PvE element becomes fairly repetitive but mercifully it doesn't take long. SP requirement? Independence? More SP than trading, particularly as trading is part of it. You can put a lot of SP into it, but you don't have to. Can be solo, can be done with others, you can take your pick there.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 36	Posted - 2012.03.05 16:06:00 - [6] - Quote One of the wonders of eve is that there are just so many different ways to play and make isk, but I think I've covered the mainstream competitors there.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 36	Posted - 2012.03.05 16:10:00 - [7] - Quote Scion Lex wrote: Trading is an exceptional broad term imo. Indeed. Pretty much every way to make isk involves trading somewhere.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 40	Posted - 2012.03.05 19:57:00 - [8] - Quote Ozzie Asrail wrote: Trading is really the only straight forward way to make your isk earn you more isk in EVE. I disagree, although you might be taking a very wide definition of trading that includes all the other things I can think of (investments for example). Ozzie Asrail wrote: Missions, incursions, mining, wormholes are all usually a set isk/hour. There isn't a hard cap to any of those, it's a soft cap like with trading. You can push your earnings higher and higher and it gets harder and harder to progress them further and eventually you will hit the limit imposed by your ability, method and resources. I think what you actually mean is that for the average person you'll reach that cap at a much lower isk/hour from these PvE activities than you will with trading.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2012.03.06 06:41:00 - [9] - Quote Ozzie Asrail wrote: For PvE going from a T2 fit to a faction fit faction BS will be a big improvement. Will going officer/deadspace really make that much more isk in an hour or two of L4's to have good ROI? I can't really comment with authority on L4 missioning as I have no recent experience, unlike the other alternatives I've discussed in this thread. When I did do L4 missioning I think I would have to classify my approach as unorthadox anyway, so it would not have matched the experience of the average player. I multiboxed cherry-picked missions using a pair of gank fit Nightmares, I left all loot and salvage to another player who had an arrangement to give me half of his take, my standings gain was shared out via the gang to customers paying for a standings service and my LP was converted to valueable goods which then went into my trading. I guess that my approach was reasonably close to optimal back then, but it wouldn't get close to Wormholes and FW missions now, in fact it would struggle to match Incursions. Faction prices were high back then, so even faction fitting had questionable merit. Nowdays faction is highly affordable and relatively easy to justify, but I doubt officer/deadspace fits are truely worthwhile for the average player even now.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2012.03.06 08:30:00 - [10] - Quote Kara Books wrote: My dear, investing in strangers, requires collateral, or face almost certain losses if you do it more then once, its really that simple. Maybe if you are bad at it. I've been investing in MD for what, 6 years, give or take? How many losses have I suffered? Calgorac: I think it was 500m invested, Calgorac went missing so I lost my investment. Fortunately the total interest payments received over this long running bond means that I still made a profit. Inigo Firebird: I invested a few billion, he scammed after running the bond for many months. Fortunately he was a member of The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels so I only had to ask him nicely to get my money back. That's it... Except I think I invested 50m in Rawcola many years ago and I have no idea how that ended... but who can understand Rawcola anyway? I've seen many other regular MD investors state that they have made a profit overall. I don't think it's purely down to luck either, MD investment is not just a roll of the dice.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 44	Posted - 2012.03.06 11:57:00 - [11] - Quote papamike wrote: You forgot PI Bobby. And Mission Running too. And mining? Yes, that was deliberate. Mainstream mission running isn't really a viable choice if you are trying to maximise your earnings. I ignored PI along with all other industrial activities because it's far too complex a subject and ultimately reliant on having lots of accounts for any kind of scale. I didn't think any comparison to the alternatives I did list would be appropriate. Mining... well, I simply have no experience from which to base any assessment of it.
Bad Bobby Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 50	Posted - 2012.03.08 13:31:00 - [12] - Quote Medai Kesrith wrote: 428m/h .... i doubt there is any other profession which makes that ISK/h ratio. It's difficult to effectively compare the isk/hour on different professions like this. Your trading makes 428m per active hour invested, but a large part of the profession involves waiting for contracts to be accepted. It's a predominantly afk profession. Various methods of scamming can easily exceed that yield and similarly most scams are a waiting game. There are plenty of industrial activities that also generate a lot of isk per active hour invested, but they involve massive investment and not inconsiderable risk. Farming C5/C6 wormhole escalations will generate far more isk worth of loot per hour, but converting that loot into isk requires that you have a route back to normal space. The farming itself involves the use of capitals, which has a fairly large SP requirement, and requires multi-boxing. Farming 0.0 anoms with a Titan generates huge isk per hour, and it's raw isk delivered directly to your wallet, but obviously the barriers to entry in that profession are considerable. Farming FW missions is extremely lucrative, if you figure out how to effectively cash in all the rewards, with 1000m/h being entirely possible (speaking from personal experience) but figuring out how to achieve that is not a trivial exercise.

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